March 10-2012

[natoba]

We like feedback! Were aware of some things we the mods liked and disliked this game, but now we want to know what the players liked and disliked!

I liked Dovanyan!

[benstokes]

I liked the free rockstar, the more organized and useful human hq, and the better communication of objectives.

I disliked the confusing and varied special zombies with arbitrary rules on what you could kill them with, and the fact that most of the secrets hidden around campus were worthless memes and other time wasters.

[Litheon]

They actually were not useless. They were hints. But I agree that the specials could use a bit of retooling.

[chowder]

First off I would like to thank everyone who made this game happen. Another epic HvZ for sure.

The communication to players this game was excellent and I hope that making HQ tech friendly (the map was just such a nice touch) comes back in every subsequent game. Once again the mods and all the other people that helped out in the game did an excellent job. The game flowed well and there was that typical feel that you get from every HvZ of feeling safe to an overwhelming fear of being overun.

Now for constructive criticism.
I am very sure you have heard it, and will be hearing it again and again (and I am aware its been posted above), but the special infected (alright, who am I kidding, almost exclusively the bulletproof) were a little imbalanced. I feel like the mechanics of defeating them were fair, but being able to identify them was somewhat of a difficulty when you were being swarmed. I feel like this could be fixed by giving the special infected something more attention grabbing than flagging tape or a vest (that vest was a b@#$h to identify on a blue shirt during combat) such as a hats, flags, or balloons. I feel like a fashion show or just reposting the pictures on slides during initial briefing would have really helped as there was some confusion on certain zombie types (people were throwing socks at the bulletproof). I am aware that the types were posted on the forum, and I made sure my group knew what was what, but I am sure there is not a lot of people that were actively checking the facebook group or this forum.

I found the human cash store (for myself and the group I was with) just sort of ignored. I know it was used at least once for the dragon borns, but I found that acquiring cash was just sort of dull and not really any of the secondary missions that appealing. I think if secondary missions flowed better with the primary mission and that instead of cash being rewarded the primary mission is made easier, it would be used more. Instead of holding the line for 10 minutes and then receiving cash, make it so that zombies can no longer cross the line for the rest of the mission.

The primary missions were interesting and unique, that was for sure. That said, I found it hard to have a feeling of inclusion and that I was making a difference when there was 50+ humans defending a single NPC. To reiterate my point above I think it would be very cool to have (using Dr. Egg Tray mission as example) side missions that allowed a certain pathway to be blocked off or have some sort of node that the humans also have to hold, and if the node is compromised then zombies are allocated more rage for the mission or a faster spawn.

I also want to add that the gravemind was an excellent mechanic. It really forced teamwork on both sides. Bravo for that. But I think that he should've been vulnerable to all types of weapons since he constantly had zombies spawning on him and hitting him with anything was difficult. I also feel like high fives were a little bit too fast to respawn zombies, maybe a three part zombie handshake just to slow it down a little bit or have zombies wait before they can respawn. Though I enjoyed the balance afforded by the gravemind (as a human), it was nigh impossible to get near enough to even get into dart range. Perhaps if tagged zombies had to sing happy birthday (or something) before they could move back towards spawn (gravemind in this case) it would be a little more possible to push back against it.

Anyway, these are just what I found from this game. This was definetely the best HvZ yet, and I hope that they keep getting better

[Litheon]

Ryan Petty would like to point out that it was Doctor Eggtrain, but he just had a really thick german accent that was indistinguishable from english except for that one name.

[TheGrandKababi]

Thanks for the feedback Ben, I'm glad that you appreciated the new format of the HHQ, we put some time into planning a new way of getting information out to the player base, which is difficult to do when there's 200+ people working toward the same objective. If you have any other comments about how we can improve upon it, they'd be much appreciated. Plans for next time discussed by Moderators so far have included a cleaner layout including separate locations for Job Board/Cash Store and Overwatch information to make it all more streamlined and easier to find the information that you need.

As for the arbitrary zombies that you were talking about, there were only two new special infected that were added this game. The Bulletproof was the one that offered the most grief from what we've heard so far. All of this information could be found online uvicurbangaming.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=hvz&action=display&thread=65 or it could be obtained from the 5 Squad Leaders or 20 Moderators. Moderators on the field were communicating with human groups of what types of specials were currently on the field and I'm sorry that your group may have been missed.

Of the QR codes that were scattered around campus, 25% were hints towards the weapons of legend including one meme that had a location marked by a building that had a Weapon of Legend at that location. Another 15% contained links to information about our game and it's history. Which leaves about 60% for duds and general lulz. I think the biggest problem here was that players and groups snatched up the printed sheets of codes and held onto them, which really is unfortunate.

Hints for all of these side missions, as well as the main missions were for sale in the cash store for a relatively low price but none of them were purchased. All of them were folders containing maps and photos of locations that would have the next step in solving the quest.

Basically what I'm trying to get to here is that what we do is put at least a post a day leading up to the main event with bonus information that is definitely of use. If people choose not to look into the hints that'll mean a steeper learning curve for an individual but that's where the teamwork and overall human group survival usually kicks in.

[SoarinSora]

I am quoted Brodie's comment on Facebook. This is in regards to special zombie information

But not everyone going would have seen that in advance.
Some people hear about HVZ through their friends, and never find the Facebook group or event. Some people only see the FB event, which only had a link to that page in a reply to a comment; you can't blame someone for not reading every reply to every comment on the event page. If you want to complain that someone who 'attended' the FB event didn't see it, you should first post it in the event description, not a reply to a comment. Moreover, some people don't even use Facebook, or don't check it regularly.
I fully agree that some people could have been better prepared. But I completely disagree with the idea that, because it was posted on the FB group in advance, then it was that person's own fault if they didn't know.

[sarge]

As one of the Bullet Proof Zombies I DISAGREE with your lies and slander at me being completely OP!

But seriously guys, this one was WAY better than last semesters with the way missions and side quests worked. I do agree with the special zombies needing better markings. Maybe they have to carry a flag above their head or something (Japanese Samurai style) so that people know something is going to kill them and they have a better chance to say their good byes to loved ones.

Oh and put some snacks in the Zombie HQ too. Having to run to HHQ to get some free rockstar was mean... they called me names. Made me feel left out... very sad.

[lmaoshaun]

So I just want to say, I had a ton of fun at my first HVZ, and I want to thank you all for that. That aside, there were a couple things I remarked that after reading all the previous comments I would like to agree with. The bulletproof zombies definitely needed better markings to stand out, otherwise you didn't know until they were right close in your face. Maybe try balloons tied around them? A blue vest doesn't really stand out all too well. It was also a tad OP too because few players had velcro darts... Maybe a vulnerability to marshmallows as well next time? I feel like HHQ should've given us a bit more info on the special zombies too, we were kind of left on our own for that.

Money. Great idea, things seemed pretty expensive though. Out of nine of us, we were only able to amass maybe a little over $1000, so going all Skyrim on zombies seemed near impossible to me. I'm thinking lowering the price on things to make it a little easier to get so epic perks.

I mostly have to second what Chowder had to say above.

Don't get me wrong, I had SO much fun! Can't wait until next time!

[natoba]

The Bulletproof.

We really do appreciate the feedback on it, were always trying new things out to see what is fun and what isn't. I will however note that some of the suggestions to improve the Bulletproof are impractical. Balloons don't really work they get popped, tangled, destroyed, and their gone and we lose the ability to signal the BP. The Samurai flag while it sounds cool, remember that this is a game about running around on pavement and mud. I don't want to see a giant stick in someones ass, that's about it.

The last bit I will mention is that we had Velcrodarts for sale from the Human Cash store.

In regards to the lack of food in the ZHQ, that was more a lack of man power, ZHQ gets really hectic and we'd have to shuffle moderators around to keep it clean and our numbers are so few some times.

[natoba]

I also want to throw out a question.

Did anyone really try the job boards out? How'd they go over/what was it like if you did?

[TheGrandKababi]

So, since this thread has cooled down, I think now would be a good time to summarize the main feel that I'm getting from everyone. The way that I'm going to set it up is what was good and people enjoyed in the game so that we can highlight what was a recent addition and should be kept the same because it works and is enjoyable. After that I'll be grouping together all the things that came off as bad/irritating/difficult or a general challenge for both players and Moderators. So on with the show.

What went well?
Swag
Apparently people like having free stuff. This was our first time round setting up a partnership with Rockstar and it appears that everyone involved was happy, all of us students got a whack of energy and Rockstar likes the album of photos we handed them for promotional purposes.
About 60% of the blasters that we had on sale were bought up by players to fill out the spaces in their load out which is great because that means over $100 raised for Child's Play Charity. I really enjoyed modding these blasters and I hope they worked out in the field for you. In the future, I'd like some feedback on if something like this is still wanted and if it's a good way to help you guys out while helping out sick kids.
Food and shirts. It was a new thing that we wanted to do since the previous games all had the feedback that food was wanted and was hard to come by during the heat of battle. We set up with our own bakers and Gluten Free Club as well as a whole pile of gamer food to feed the army. As well as this we got a whole whack of Uvic Urban Gaming shirts to help get our name out there and also raise some money to keep the awesome events coming. Sales here were lower than expected but hey, it's a new thing and it can only grow from here.

HHQ
Computer boxes make it all make a bit more sense. This time around we had maps set up for every player to see as well as audio and written descriptions of objectives available for what needs to be done in the main campaign.
The side quests in the form of the job board offered a handful of players different challenges to take on in their off time. Some bad Australian accents were used and in general it looked like people enjoyed them.
The Squad Leaders helping out in sharing information about missions definitely helped on the field, in our coming games we need to get more of these though. It's as simple as being someone who knows what they are doing in the game and is okay talking with people about the game. The benefit is knowledge about the campaign before game day and other mystery goodies to incent you to drop your name in the hat. More people helping out new players is better for the human team as a whole.

The Campaign
In general it appears that people enjoyed what was in the main storyline, which is great to hear. I had a lot of fun working with the Moderator team writing missions. The only downside is that it ended not even halfway through the story and I'm not sure how much of the games supplementary material was stumbled upon. In QR codes there was supporting documentation for pretty much every mission and in the cash store there were extra story materials to expand on who was involved and added more possible objectives.
Originally I thought the original campaign would have been far too simple due to a slower ramp in difficulty level, some amazing coordination by the zombie team brought about a quick end to the story which is unfortunate but I must applaud our zombie tacticians out there.

Now for the stuff that didn't go as well.

For this part I'm going to lay out the problem from the criticism that we've received so far as well as the potential fix that the Moderator team has come up with already. These fixes are preliminary and are from a few of us and are by no means permanent, I'm just posting them so that you guys can take a look at the process and shout out if it's anything that throws up warning lights.

Team Balance
In the beginning there's just no zombies to shoot at and it's humans running around looking silly, then it gets really hard.
This is the tough one because it's a mechanic of the game that requires a knowledge of the game to identify the switch between free wheeling and OH GOD OH GOD OH GOD THEY'RE EATING MY FACE AND EVERYONE I KNOW. In the past the period of time with very few zombies on the field lasted for a good two to three hours so this game the Rage mechanic was introduced to bring support to the initially weak zombie side. The zombie players took this mechanic and ran with it which left the humans all turned really quickly due to getting swarmed in static defence on two occasions. So, since the game is a constant balance, the best way to fix instability is nudge it closer back to the center.
Parts of the proposed solution are covered in other sections, but here we are with the best overall fix that we see from player criticisms.
Knowledge is power! Over the years in my free time I've been working on "The Book of Wat Do?". It's a general guide to HvZ with helpful hints, strategies and tactics for if and when you build teams up for both human and zombie players. Parts of this have been shared on the forums so far across various posts and threads and other parts were shared in our panel at Tsukino Con.
Since our player base is a lot of new players who might not understand the shift or the basic strategies to HvZ survival, I want to work on this over the summer, maybe get some input from players (you guys) and make this accessible in the easiest way possible. I'd love to hear back on the best ways that we can get all the information out to everyone since Facebook is just a quagmire of likes and comments and the forum pulls casual readers in swarms but not people that want to sign in. Nik and I (CSC and CEng types) have been spitballing a webpage where we can link all the photos, video and information that is the growing history of Urban Gaming and of course a calendar full of information on events that are coming up. If this appeals to you, let us know.
For those who don't live on the internet like I do, at the start of game what is proposed is handy little leaflets that have the basic game rules, things to watch out for such as the types of infected and where to go if you get lost during the day.

Side Missions
Some people didn't enjoy, didn't pay attention to or just didn't understand the Job Board.
The other side missions were just not referenced at all which led to them being overlooked entirely.
There should be more variety in the types of side quests and the rewards received from them.

Truth. The Job Board was overlooked in my opinion just because of the way it was presented. This was the place where there was about 15 different challenges to prove your HvZ skill and earn some cash at the same time. All these got tossed up onto the same projector as the map and objectives which just became cluttered and gross. I can understand why people just didn't use it. The jobs that were on there are posted in this sub forum, so if you get the chance, take a look and see what you think. I'd love to run the job board again because it's a good way to set up human cooperation early on while stockpiling money so that the big bads can be countered with perks from the cash store. The easy fix we have now is to put the Job Board out into its own area so that these mini quests are easier to access and more human perks will be fielded.

The other side quests were god damn hard. I made them that way. Half of them were started but the majority of people got stuck half way. One team was on the final step of one of them (the last step was to make a paper hat that had instructions in the folder of other memes and distractions). There were hints able to be purchased in the cash store but these weren't bought. So, from being an observer, what I can see is that the quest starts should be more obvious and have a difficult first step to throw some people off the path but let the die hard puzzle solvers push on through. As well as that, it should be advertised that Weapons of Legend are the end reward of these hard quests.

The last one is where you all come in. Bring them suggestions of what you want to see, what you want to do and most importantly, what you want the pay off to be. Personally, I've never played a full game of HvZ. I have no clue what is valuable to the Uvic player community, the Mod team just plays it by ear of the last game and implements new ideas that we come up with. If you have any idea of missions or rewards, shoot an email to the club account or drop by one of the meetings. If you submit with a bit more enthusiasm than "this'd be okay, I guess" there's a good chance that something along those lines will appear in a later game. The campaign story and side quests are pretty self referential to things that have happened in the Uvic game previously.

Economy Balance
This one is the one that caused a lot of grief by the sounds of it. People working through the job board and others snagging up cash all the while stockpiling it.
We tried implementing the bank to promote sharing between groups of humans, which in the end did happen with the Drop Squad and a Weapon of Legend(derp store version) being bought. This system is on the chopping block really. It makes sense when talking about it but in practice it's a headache for people that are playing and running the game alike. Make your voice heard; tell us what you think of the World Bank.
Another factor to promote use of the cash store is to drop prices of items. This is what I've heard repeatedly so gosh darn it must be true. All the items in the store are set on a scale of power against the zombies (buying special ammo is cheap where negating a type of special infected costs more) so we just picked increments of 500 and 1000. So what we can do is inflate the pay rate from the Job Board, make found cash worth more or just drop the overall prices. Whatever works best for people.

Special Infected
Now for that big fucking velcro vest wearing elephant in the room.
Bulletproof is OP. That was kind of the point in its creation. It's just like any of the special infected in any zombie based game you play. L4D? If you hear one of the special bacteria spawn chimes, you recognize it and adapt your strategy. Usually by screaming TAAAANK. Slow zombie accumulation in previous games made the Mod Squad sit down and think about ways to give those zeds a leg up earlier in the game. Over the course of the hour where there was a Bulletproof zombie on the field it changed from 20% zombies to ~75% which meant a huge influx of Rage with which they bought a bunch of Shielded and a Gravemind. Yeah. Zombie coordination is scary. Don't worry, in the future the Bulletproof will be nerfed (technical term that) or removed from the game entirely since it's a huge advantage to the zombie side. When I say nerfed I mean put a turn-cap on the player and an extended respawn similar to the traditional Tank.
Needs to be more visible. Agreed, blue and red are commonly worn colours and can blend in. The samurai flag is a cool idea but I just don't want that for safety reasons of somebody running full tilt and taking a flag pole to the eye. Balloons could work, but I fear they don't last as long as other things. An option is to move to the high visibility coveralls as well as the vest so that there is a big reflective and colourful thing to spot. We can definitely talk more about this as time goes on.

End of talking

So yeah, that's the summary of constructive information that's been sent to the Moderators about the last game in general. We're always open for more and this is an open forum. If you want to talk about any of these one sections specifically, open up a new topic in Game Improvements and write away. I love to hear the good and the bad about the game since it proves that HvZ is a living breathing thing that only gets better as we go on. I've heard a lot of positive things about the March game this year; let's keep bringing in that feedback so we can make October even better.

Cheers